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Post by fudgikillz on Nov 12, 2010 0:59:37 GMT -8
We suck balls. Time to l2p. Useful sites: wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Main_Pagewww.sc2replayed.com/replayswiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Replay_Websiteswww.youtube.com/user/day9tv or day9tv.blip.tv/ or www.ustream.tv/day9tvEamon's turn! Quick pointers: -Hotkey all your buildings. Keeping all barracks on one control group using shift->number is a good idea. -Watch your supply, minerals and minimap. -Never stop making scvs. You were always low. -Know your build order. Know when you need a 2nd gas. -Hotkey Hotkey Hotkeys. Make sure you are always adding new units to your control groups. Also, hotkey your fucking marines. -Keep your money low. Try to keep it below 400 at all times. With terran it is easy. On one base, hotkey 3 raxes on one control group and contantly make units. (if you aren't queuing and you are making enough supply depots and upgrading it is almost perfect at spending all your money) Once you take your natural you can tech or add on more raxes. Just remember to constantly be producing. -Scout your opponent. Knowing exactly when their expansion goes up, what units they are making and where they are located is crucial. (I kinda told you all of these things in those games so w/e) -Utilize timing attacks. Specifically, when I tell you that victor fast expands there is a timing where he is just about to profit from his expansion. You NEED to do SOMEthing before then to try to apply pressure. Even sending something like 4 marines is enough to make him spending larvae on lings or spending a drone on a spine crawler. Another simple and effective time to attack is when you just complete an upgrade. Here is a good example: At 10 minutes into game 2 of that replay pack you were just about to complete plus one weapons upgrade. This would have been an AMAZING time to push out because victor's spire wasn't done yet. Attacking at that time would do a lot of damage but more importantly it would delay victor's mutas. (He would have to spend larvae on other units to defend) You were 2 minutes to late -when to make more marines and when to make more marauders. Against zerg, marauders are really only good at tanking fungal growths, killing roaches and tanking banelings. Otherwise having more marines is usually better. Against everything besides ultras, infestors and roaches marines do more damage. It's still good to get at least one tech lab for researching stim though. -When to tech? I have no idea... Whenever you fucking feel like it. Marines and marauders do fine against mostly everything. TvZ ideas to keep in mind: Against Mutalisks: -The way to beat mutas is early pressure. Do as much damage as possible before mutas come out. -Two missile turrets on at each base on either side of the mineral line plus a handful of marines should be enough to deal with muta harass. At least until the muta numbers get crazy. -marines and thors should be able to deal with large numbers of mutas. -vikings are pretty bad against mutas... -Mutas are very mobile. This makes contains really hard to do without leaving your base undefended. Learn one build order for each matchup. wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2_Rax_Orbitalwiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1Rax_1Fact_1Portwiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1_Rax_Factwiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Orbital_Command_Openingare all good and pretty simple. Misc: -put graphics settings on low like a boss. (or medium if you really want... the lower the better) But have Effects and texture quality on ultra. (apparently it makes cloaked units stand out. -Enable game timer, disable windows key and enable health bars. (under gameplay) -instead of scrolling with by moving your mouse to the sides try scrolling with the arrow keys or by holding down the mouse wheel. (the mouse wheel thing is really really useful) -f1 selects idle workers -ctrl->f5-8 can be used to hotkey areas on the minimap. That is all I've got for now. Next up is Victor or Jack. Later on I'll post some replays of myself so you guys can critique me. Attachments:
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Post by fudgikillz on Nov 12, 2010 15:36:31 GMT -8
Jack's Turn!! Macro Tips: -FUCKING HOTKEYS. that game you didn't use any hotkeys.... -Expand smartly. Taking that gold was a retarded move. ESPECIALLY with those positions. Naturals are free... -Watch your probe count. Although it is good to make probes constantly you only need 24 per base. (The idea of constantly making probes is only effective when you are actually taking expansions as you make probes) -w selects all your warpgates -Fine tune your build order. Or actually learn one. (10 pylon, 11 gate, 13 pylon, 23 gate is fucking useless) wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/9_Pylon_12_Gatewayis the standard opening. You like to rush so 4 gate would be perfect for you. wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/4_Warpgate_Rushyou can do it in all matchups, it is really easy AND it is incredibly effective. Write it down, learn it, practice it, win. Misc ideas: -zealots are really good against MMs but you needed more sentries to forcefield them in place. -Watch your supply. But don't make pylons too early because it slows down your build. -Research warpgate ASAP -Don't upgrade shields. Weapons or armour are better choices... (AND he had emp) -gas steals, pylons in their base, etc. are STUPID. slows down your build, offers little to no real scouting and it is just a waste of 100 minerals. That could have been another zealot. It's okay to do these shenanigans sometimes but most of the time it won't be a good investment. -teching vs macro. Sure getting zealot charge is cool, but under these circumstances (when he is taking an expansion and you aren't) just getting some sentries would serve you better. Money spent on a twilight council, charge, etc could have been spent on units that could have been used to apply pressure. -never click on portraits. learn the hotkeys and use them. Overall the most important thing for you is to learn a fucking build order. It seems like you are still playing sc1. Also, (unless the replay is fucking up) USE HOTKEYS. HERP DERP DERP RAGE. edit: (not very relevent) f1 selects an idle worker. ctrl f1 selects all idle workers. DOWNLOAD THIS AND PLAY IT www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124983Attachments:
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Post by fudgikillz on Nov 15, 2010 12:58:16 GMT -8
Sam's turn!!! Three of those are from ladder where I get raped by banshees or void rays. I just don't know what to do...... 2 of those are against Stephen where I fast expand as zerg and end up losing. Some things I think I could change or do better: -scout better. I need to learn to suicide overlords at key times. -get banelings against terran infantry instead of trying to rush to mutas. -tighten up my build -perhaps get a evo chamber a bit early for spore crawlers?? -make more queens to deal with air? -when getting hydras against high temps use spine crawlers to push out because storm can't kill buildings. That should allow me to expand a bit more. (I fucking couldn't take a third that game) -I dunno The thing is that if I fast expand and they rush air I can't get mutas or hydras out fast enough... I just have queens and spore crawlers (both of which I can't make on reaction) to shoot up. I need halp. Attachments:
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Post by crackboy on Nov 15, 2010 18:33:24 GMT -8
I can give protoss advice, I need to find some reps of me losing to some good strategies, but I'll critique myself later. PvT: - Find a way to always transition into Collosi. As shown in the Blizzcon finals, you can rofl stomp Terran even if they go banshee. - The basic build order for this is 1 base Collosus: wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/One_Base_Colossus_%28vs._Terran%29- If you don't get maphacks (observers) its very hard to play against terran, because they wall of their god damn base, so you may have difficulty scouting without maphacks. You can easily transition out of thisv into anything, because the primary purpose of the MH (map hacks) is to see what your opponent is doing. Now, seeing as they are Terran almost 100% of the time they will go bio. immortals are super hard counter to marauders, cause they can deal insane amounts of damage. Even if he does go mech, collosus can beat siege tanks unless they are at the perfect position and in a critical mass (i.e. almost never). - Stalkers are kinda really weak in this matchup, because of marines and maruaders, I don't really recommend building them unless they try to counter your collosi with vikings (which will happen almost 95% of the time). you only need a couple to deal damage in early game while your zealots tank the fire from the m&m ball. PvZ: - Fun matchup, but with the recent patch makes more builds obsolete (cannon block at ramp, Forge FE aka. Bisu build...), I suggest not having to go robo everygame, because MH are not as prominant in this matchup, simply because you can suicide shit to see their tech, well, just pop into natural to se unit composition, always helpful. - I personally like to whore out the best and most dickish/abusive strats vs zerg, like 3 gate blink stalkers, 2 base timing attacks (cut probes when you have about two per each mineral patch) and rushing early VR's because they have the shit of the shit anti air... Still Editing
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Post by popehitler on Nov 15, 2010 20:56:24 GMT -8
Cheeser....
I need more tips on how to deal with protoss, and more specifically, how to win without mutas. To me, winning without mutas is like playing on garena without noobs or leavers or random dcs. I just don't understand how it could be possible.
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Post by crackboy on Nov 15, 2010 21:40:49 GMT -8
It's not cheesing, its whoring abusive builds that work, aka winning!
Winning a ZvP is pretty easy.
1. Choose Scrap Station
2. Macro Hard
3......?
4. Profit!!!!
Seriously though, ZvP is prett straight foward. If they mass gateway units, you can get a critical mass of hydras. Hydra's destroy gateway units really fast. Make sure though, you have a critical mass, otherwise they fail. If toss goes collosi, make some currupters but don't over commit, they are useless once the collosi are dead.
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Post by fudgikillz on Nov 15, 2010 21:59:59 GMT -8
Victor, to not abuse a zerg who fast-expands is dumb. You can do 2 hatch hydra but the thing is hydras kinda get raped later on. (Collossi or storm) wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2_Hatch_Hydra_%28vs._Protoss%29Some things to keep in mind when going hydras against toss: -creep spread needs to be godlk or else hydras will be too slow to do anything -you NEED to be up on bases. This is a given but it is more important when you aren't going mutas -if the protoss goes collosi you NEED corruptors. (which is lame) -storm is a huge pain in the ass. I think spine crawler pushes might be cool against temps -hydras rape everything except collossi and hightemps. but you don't have to rush to hydras... here is a good example of idra playing with just lings and roaches for most of the game: sc2rep.net/replays/starcraft-2-replay-z-idra-vs-p-huk-xelnaga-caverns-10-17-2010just note his lair came after ling speed and he still doesn't get a hydra den until later on. He didn't get hydras until around 10 minutes. His gas went towards armour upgrades, roach speed and roaches. oh right check this out: www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=164060
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Post by wazza on Nov 16, 2010 16:31:28 GMT -8
o I can't wait, Sam is probably taking his time making a full blown *Giggle* essay on my failures... or he has given up already.
Anyway i am totally taking notes and posting them to my monitor, so i should be super pro anytime now.
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Post by fudgikillz on Nov 16, 2010 21:34:57 GMT -8
Cole, you haven't played much and you aren't really into sc2 so I'm not gonna rage about how much you suck.
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oflanagan
SDT Member
life is an illusion nothing really exists
Posts: 435
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Post by oflanagan on Nov 18, 2010 16:52:16 GMT -8
Quick question for Victor or Sam. How fast can you get roaches if you do the 5 roach rush perfectly?
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Post by popehitler on Nov 18, 2010 18:38:23 GMT -8
Should be close to 5 minutes, as far as I can tell. On steppes of war you can get the roaches to the other guy's base at about 5:10.
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Post by crackboy on Nov 18, 2010 19:26:27 GMT -8
Remember kids, always have detectors... and don't one base two tech trees... Attachments:
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Post by fudgikillz on Nov 20, 2010 10:15:32 GMT -8
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Post by crackboy on Jan 2, 2011 12:29:55 GMT -8
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Post by popehitler on Jan 2, 2011 14:26:33 GMT -8
With that trick, it's better to set backspace to q and then set spawn queen to r or something so that all you have to do is use the left shift key while pressing q + inject.
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Post by fudgikillz on Feb 2, 2011 21:21:58 GMT -8
on injecting: putting queens on 5,6,7, etc. is good for when you have 3 or less bases. It is reasonably fast and easy to manage and keep your queens alive. (Especially against banshees) When you start getting up to 4+ bases this method becomes a little cumbersome. (but then again the maps are so small that that isn't usually an issue...)
You can also put hatches on 5,6,7, etc and individually click queens and spawn larva. Some koreans do this, but I personally don't think it's that great. It is the slowest method, but you get the advantage of knowing exactly how long is left on your inject by pressing you hatch hotkey once.
Minimap injecting. Don't do it.
Last is the backspace-shift method. It is fast. Like vic said it helps to change the backspace hotkey. I think I'm going to try putting it on space. (seriously what is space for normally??)
On why victor should play protoss:
He has the heart of a 4-gater. Mutars aren't nearly as viable nowadays against protoss. Vic doesn't make enough drones Deathball is crazy
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Post by fudgikillz on Jul 16, 2011 21:28:31 GMT -8
Jack's Turn!! Time to lrn2play with Terran. Decide on one build and plan for every matchup. TvZBuild: 2 rax fast expand wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2_Rax_Pressure_FE_%28vs._Zerg%29And then a marine tank push with stim and siege mode on two base. Replay of me doing the build just macroing: www.mediafire.com/?lormljystbv31tn(my stim was late and disregard everything past 10 mins) Plan: Up to you. But this build is designed to put pressure on a zerg who fast expands and then hit him with a tank push before mutas come out. My plan: Bunker rush a zerg who fast expands or force him to make a shit ton of lings so I can get an economic lead. (This will help my tank push) Expand while applying pressure and get stim and siege mode. Attack when both finish to deny any third the zerg is trying to take or to punish him for going mutas. Start a third, upgrade infantry, upgrade tanks and starting getting medivac while attacking. Writing it out might help: TvPBuild: wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2-Rax_Pressure_FEwww.youtube.com/watch?v=GdYnCOhkXwQ tutorial Plan: TvTBuild: Plan: Useful Links: blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-312-newbie-tuesday-how-to-learn-and-improve-5256999 How to improve blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-258-friendday-wednesday-with-iechoic-4764180 Cool tvt build blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-252-secrets-of-hotkeys-apm-and-mouse-movement-4730506 Mechanics daily www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=242653 terran guide Random Tips: Use Camera hotkeys over your command centres so you can shift queue workers back to mine fast. (select worker>fkey>shiftrightclick is faster than select worker>scroll like a dumbass>shiftrightclick) Watch Day9's daily on mechanics and get into the habit of tapping through all your production buildings. This makes it a lot easier to constantly produce units and workers. The faster you are tapping the better at macroing you will be. Practice your builds against computers. Learn how many buildings you want to have at any moment in time. For example, against zerg I want to have 2 rax and no gas on one base. Then on twobase, I want to have 3 or 4 rax (one with tech lab), 2 factories making tanks and 3 gas. (That is the conclusion I came to after practicing 2 rax a few times)
"Here are some good general guide lines that you should try to follow: The Terran macro mechanic is rather unforgiving when compared to the other two races (with the exception of dropping a bunch of MULES at once, but I'll get to that next). If there are lapses in your production due to inattentiveness or supply blocks, it will hurt you a lot. Later on, make sure you add more production facilities, as if you don't your enemy will remax a LOT faster than you after an engagement and you'll be overrun with extra money in the bank. With Orbital energy, it can be tempting to blow scans to see what the opponent is doing, but this should be avoided if it can be helped. Scans should be reserved for checking for something that would otherwise be unscoutable, or for revealing cloaked units. If possible, use a few stimmed marines to scout an area instead of scanning it, it's a lot cheaper. An example of this is "testing the waters" of the enemy's front right before you decide to attack or not. Get in the habit of keeping a marine at important points in the map, such as their possible third base, or where their army would have to cut through to get to you. You'll start to see that versus competent opponents, the Terran bio army can melt rather easily. Sitting back and maxing out is not the best choice with this composition. You'll need to use harassment to keep the opponent from getting ridiculously ahead while he turtles on a powerful army, while taking more expansions yourself. Here's a list of my favorite compositions and strategies per match up, summed up in a few words: TvZ: Marine Tank Medivac, with the occasional marauder, ghost, or thor thrown in. Recently there was a post on team liquid which explained how to play marine tank in this match up very well: www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=241247 Look to that for build order ideas, and micro tips. I prefer opening 2 rax still in this match up. The key to marine tank is hitting that magic number of tanks, and using medivac drops to spread the zerg out and give yourself the chance to set up a successful push through distraction of his troops. You only need one really good push to seal the deal, but every time you screw one up, the next one is going to be more difficult to execute. TvP: MMM, with viking or ghost support. I always open 2 barracks with a reactor on the first one and a tech lab on the second, pushing when the first marauder comes out to put on pressure. If you macro it properly and then micro these units well, you can almost always shut down a 1 gate expo, or at the very least do a lot of damage. Learn how to get a feel for what the protoss is doing by viewing his gateway count and early game unit composition. Recognizing that something "doesn't seem right" is the best tell of a cheese build, usually a DT rush. I still don't quite have the timing down for when to get the engineering bay, so just save scans until you're sure this isn't what's happening early on. Later on it's worth it to get at least one turret at your front to prevent delayed dark templar and to chase away observers. Versus colossi, you'll definitely want to get vikings, maybe even producing from 2 starports. 9-10 is the magic number, which will two shot a colossus given equal upgrades. You'll ALWAYS want ghosts in the late game, make this a priority to get them into your army composition. You need to EMP before a battle happens, not during. TvT: Marine Tank, with medivac support and vikings. I don't have a preferred build for this match up, as each one has it's strengths and weaknesses. Anything which favors getting tanks before an expo is easier to pull off than a build that expands off of pure bio. However, once you get crushed by somebody who opens pure bio, you'll appreciate the map control they get and how your tanks are only useful if you can get a good siege spot set up. Scouting early game is important, as you need to be able to cut as many corners as possible in order to not fall behind in the macro game. Cut too many and you'll find that you're being blue flame dropped or being attacked by a cloaked banshee. Until you know that some shenanigans like this isn't occurring early on, turtle in your main. 9/10 times you'll be able to stop whatever it is, and then safely go do that contain you wanted to do anyway. Later on, you may want to turret up the edge of your base to prevent drops which bypass your siege tank line. The key to winning in a Marine/Tank vs Marine/Tank battle is getting better marine upgrades, getting a solid positioning of your siege tank line, and out expanding your opponent. Take bases aggressively, while using marine drops to prevent your opponent from doing the same. Most opponents, even up until masters, will let you expand aggressively, as people don't seem to know what to do in this match up besides turtle and hope the opponent tries to break their siege line. This is almost never a cost effective decision. Don't do it. This match up can become easy mode if you play a style of starving out your opponent." Found this on reddit
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